Spill the Tea

Welcome to spill the Tea, the podcast
where we speak with guests about various

aspects of LGBT plus culture and provoke
our thinking about the degrees of

equity, equality of opportunity, and
oppression experience by this population.

My name is Ayo Oluyemi.

I'm a lesbian with one cat
and zero belief in astrology.

I'm based at the University of
Greenwich, and today I'm really

excited to speak to our guest who
is a graduate of the university.

Tom Dingley graduated from the
University of Greenwich in 2009

with a BA in Creative Industries.

He's one of the people featured
in the university's Greenwich

Portraits, which celebrates some
university's very best alumni.

He currently works as a
freelance photographer, primarily

shooting weddings and proposals.

His critically acclaimed outcome
project, which he began in 2014,

featured LGBT plus people holding
pictures of their younger selves.

More recently, he's photographed LGBT plus
alumni of the University of Greenwich.

He's also currently working on a TV show.

Welcome to the podcast, Tom.

Is there anything that you'd like to add
to yourself about to that introduction?

Um, only that I'm a Greenwich
local, born and bred in Greenwich.

Haven't ventured far.

So you must be a fan of the area.

Yeah, I am biased, but I do like the area.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why would you go anywhere else?

Yeah, I guess there's a lot of good
places to photograph people as well.

Um, there's sort of great architecture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I've used it quite a
few times for backdrops.

Yeah.

Um, so the first thing I wanted
to ask you was how did you

get interested in photography?

So, I was lucky.

My secondary school actually had a.

A photography, a level, um, option.

So I seen that as an option while
doing my GCSEs, and I actually thought

I'll do that just as like the fun
thing on the side of real studies.

Um, so, so I did the more academic
stuff and photography was just

like, you know, the fun extra course
that, that I would enjoy doing.

Um, and I did it.

I did quite well and I had a really good,
uh, teacher who, you know, Told me, why

don't, you know, have a go and pursue it.

So I did.

Yeah.

Do you remember the first time
that you kind of picked up a

camera in a more serious way?

Uh, yeah.

So I borrowed my uncle's, uh,
film camera and on a, a holiday,

just a family holiday in Spain.

I was sort of doing more landscapes
or I remember trying to photograph

lightning, which was quite
difficult during a storm one day.

Um, but I just liked that sort of, Idea of
following something to, you know, try and

track something down to get a photo of it.

And I think that's probably what
kickstarted the, uh, interest.

And you mainly photograph people now, was
there kind of a moment where you had that

transition from doing more landscapes
to having people as your subject?

Yeah.

So it's.

Quite interesting my college work.

So when I, I went on after a level,
went on to a high national diploma,

uh, with Greenwich at Northwest Kent
College and all my, uh, courses or

like, you know, the sub, uh, courses
within them, I photographed no people

everything was landscapes or subject.

Um, You know, still life, uh, or pictures
just in and around the city that I

didn't really have to talk to anyone.

And I think that was,
I was a little bit shy.

I wasn't out, you know, I
wasn't as outgoing as I am now.

Um, and it was just easier to photograph
things that didn't talk back to you.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but now, yeah, it's
completely opposite.

I photograph only people.

Yeah.

A real flip.

Yeah.

Um, so your photography of people
is one of the things we were

hoping to talk to you about.

Um, and one of the questions I had
was, how do you think photography

can be used as a tool to support
and empower the LGBT plus community?

Um, well, I think photos are powerful
anyway, but in terms of, if you think more

of like the Instagram, social media kind
of generation, everyone's doing selfies.

It's photography allows people
to have that presence and

have their true self shown.

So if maybe back at home, like with the
city they live or with their family,

they're not completely out or not
completely comfortable being themselves

online can be a completely different, um,
persona and it gives them the confidence

which then grows into their everyday life.

Um, so I think photos are a great
way of expressing yourself, um, and

then also finding your own little.

Tribe, your, you know, your community.

If you like particular things, you end up,
you know, the algorithms on social media

allow you to meet like-minded people.

Do you think there's something special
about photographs in particular

as opposed to example videos?

Cuz when you're talking about social
media, I was thinking about, obviously

you've got apps like TikTok, they're
really popular, but they're video based.

But with photographs in capturing
just one particular moment in

time, do you think that has a
different experience for both the.

Person who's in the photo and the viewer.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Uh, definitely like when you look at a
photo, it takes you back to that moment.

You might remember the day that
it was actually taken, or the

holiday or you know, the experience
you were having at the time.

Um, and, and it really, a photo
can really stand out as like a

milestone in a part of your life.

So you mentioned my Outcome project.

I've, I've photographed so many people.

I can't remember how many, uh,
it was, you know, three figures

worth of, uh, different people.

Each one had their own
little different story.

Each one had their own childhood
photo, and it was interesting to,

you know, to see that they actually
enjoyed looking at their old photos

of themselves as a kid, picking out
which one they were going to use.

And it just, it just shows that a photo,
you know, encapsulates that person at

that moment in time and it know it's
a memory for them to look back on.

And one of the things that I found really
striking about the outcome project when

I was looking at some of the pictures
is how the photographs that people

holding themselves were really blown up.

Um, and they were physically
large enough to Yeah, yeah.

To see the, the child
in the, in the picture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, so I think that was a conscious
decision that when it has more impact,

because you know, you can then see
the picture that they're holding.

It's not just like a little photo
booth and kind of picture also, it's

just so you then the viewer of the,
the photograph of the portrait can see

the adult who's now out and enjoying
life and doing whatever they're doing,

but also to see them as a child.

And you can.

See, you know, is there
any still resemblance?

Do they still look like
the, the child they were?

Um, it's also interesting that some
of the people I photographed, they

would choose a childhood photo that had
some kind of link to what they do now.

So I photographed a, a ballerina who
picked out a childhood photo where

he's holding onto the banisters and
stretching out, almost looking like

he was destined to be a dancer.

You know, that kind of thing.

Um, So, yeah, so the, the childhood
photo within the portrait needed

to be big enough so the viewer
could, you know, see the, the child.

And it's also quite cool that it's
a photograph within a photograph.

So you'll seeing people have their
reaction to their childhood selves,

and especially with that journey of.

Coming out when you are part of the
Lgt Plus community, um, it seems

that it's more about people coming,
the journey, people coming out to

themselves within this project.

That's what you're focusing on.

Yeah.

It's, it's almost like a,
this was me, this is me now.

And, and I'm happy with the, the
journey, um, that, that I've been on.

Um, but I mean, also it, it reminds me
when I actually first thought of the

project, there was quite a big, um, A
thick thing on Twitter and Instagram's

all called Throwback Thursday where people
would post an old photo of themselves

and it sort of clicked that people like
that nostalgia and looking back and just

reviving a little bit about themselves
from years past and that that's all

little nugget of interest then made
the outcome project what it is because

then holding the childhood photo.

Just sort of awakens that sense
of this was the person, as a

kid, this is the person now.

Um, and yeah, and yeah, they're happy.

Yeah.

What was that process like of
talking to people while they were

picking up their childhood photos?

So did they share a lot
about themselves with you?

Oh yeah.

Everyone has a completely different story.

Some more elaborate, some sad,
some just completely normal.

Everything was fine.

Um, But then, you know, choosing the
childhood photos, some people had

hardly any to choose from cuz they don't
necessarily speak to their family or

they don't have that connection anymore.

Some people had too much choice and
would arrive with all these pictures

and we would, you know, pick the one
that was, you know, the nicest or one

that sort of fit better with what they
were wearing on the day or something.

Um, So, yeah, there's a whole
like range of people out there.

Everyone has their story.

Um, and it was important for me to
have many different people in my

project to show that, you know, there
are LGBT plus people in all walks of

life from all different backgrounds.

Um, and, uh, we, yeah, we're thriving.

And is that the main thing that
you wanted the viewers to get

from those photographs as well?

That image of thriving and growth.

Yeah.

And, and being out and happy
and just getting on with life.

It was my, my first sort of thought would
be to, if you were a young closeted LGBT

plus person and you saw this project, it
would just show you that, you know, you

don't have to be this person, that person.

You don't have to follow a, a
route of sticking to a job that

you think you're destined for.

You can go on to do anything
and be anyone and be yourself.

Um, And all, you know, all my portraits
were little role models of you can,

you know, go and find your luck.

Come out, live your life.

Don't let, um, don't have any shame.

Don't hold back.

Go for life.

You know, go and do what you want to do.

Um, so there was that.

And then on the other side of people who
aren't in the community, that would have

quite a narrow-minded view of what a
gay person or a lesbian would look like.

They would see the project and
they just might think, oh, okay.

Yeah.

And I didn't realize there
were gay politicians or, you

know, in all walks of life.

So again, it was just trying to put
a little spotlight that, um, again,

LGBT plus people are everywhere.

Yeah.

In, yeah.

And in every industry as well.

Yeah.

So really highlighting that
diversity that exists within, yeah.

The community too, and almost like
a, I get the sense it's a bit of

a kind of pick and choose what
you relate to, what strikes you.

Um, yeah.

So the idea is that people will kind
of view the photographs altogether as

a set and see what they're drawn to.

Yeah.

And it's almost like it's a
mirror on society in general

cuz everyone is different.

Everyone wants to do different things
and it, it's the same in the project.

It just shows that there's people like.

Doing manner of different
jobs and experiences.

How did you go about the process of
finding people to be part of the project?

Um, so I, I started off just asking
people that I knew just to get like

a, a few portraits in, then have
examples to show other people this

is, this is the project I'm doing.

Do you want to be part of it?

So once I had a few portraits,
I would then, uh, just use

social media and um, websites.

And then after a while I
had a few more portraits.

I would then use like the, um, some
small press maybe online just to

run small stories, asking if anyone
wants to get in touch with me.

And yeah, quite a lot of people did.

And then having more portraits, I did
little exhibitions connected to different

prides I exhibited with, uh, London Pride
and Brighton Pride were like the main.

Big ones that I did.

And then from that, more people then
got in touch and it was just like a more

and more, more portraits were taken.

So it really grew from
what you first imagined.

Did you ever, yeah.

Was that kind of the hope that you had
for it, that it would grow that big?

Or were you just trying something out?

I mean, at first it was just a matter
of, oh, let's just see how many I can do.

And then after a while, then you
start to see, I mean, like when I

first started it was just a lot of
white gay men, uh, photographed.

And then I think right now I
need, I need more women in it.

I need trans people.

I need people of color.

So then I did, you know, start
to like target groups and like

I, I spoke to a Diva magazine
just to get more women involved.

And then, you know, it then starts to,
Become like the, the, the wide breadth

of community that, that it was, you
know, it was quite a good mix in the end.

And you also published a book
of the photographs as well.

Did that feel like the culmination of it?

Yeah, that's, so I was lucky enough
I photographed, uh, a lady called

Cherry Pots, who is an author
and a publisher, which helps.

Yeah.

Um, so we had a conversation.

We did a, a crowdfund, uh, raised
enough money or just a little bit

more than what we were hoping for.

And then, yeah, the book came together.

So we picked out of, I wanna
say 150 portraits at the time.

Uh, we picked out a certain
number, uh, to include and then

got a little bio from each person.

And yeah, so the book is then
just like a book form of role

models of the LGBT plus community.

Yeah, so it was exciting to, to be part
of, and then to have, actually have a

physical book with your name on it and,
and your work in inside it was, was cool.

And then we launched it at the university
here at the, in the Heritage Gallery.

We had all the walls were
covered with outcome portraits.

Uh, we had a launch night,
which was a very fun.

Night.

Um, it was just, yeah, it's
just a proud moment for me.

Uh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, uh, getting all those people
together and it must have felt really

incredible and I was thinking about how
to talk about social media, but then

also having the photographs in person.

Are there any particular
photograph that you've seen?

Uh, physically that you feel have
helped you on kind of with your

experiences of being LGBT plus?

Um, well, funny enough, my first
ever lesson, um, in a level

photography, we all were just given
a, a photo book, a different one.

Each student had a different book and
I was given a, a book by a photographer

called Nan Golden, who's an American
photographer, and I didn't know at the

time, but she worked a lot with queer
people, um, and the trans community.

And in, at the time it was just
a, a photography book to me.

And you know, like the pictures.

Um, but in hindsight it almost felt
like this is, someone gave me that book

cuz this is your path kind of thing.

This is where you're destined to, to go.

Uh, so yeah, so Nan Golden has always
like popped up as someone that I feel

like there's a slight connection with and
there's a lot of people portraits and.

This is, you know, this is what I do now.

So is there anything particularly
striking about that style of

photography that appealed to you?

Um, just their kind of like, focus on
people that are considered other, that

the other people of, um, the community
are interesting or where the of a

photo because they are considered other
by, you know, the majority of people.

Yeah.

I quite like that idea that
you need a representation.

They're worthy of photos
just like anyone else.

Yeah.

Which, yeah, I think that's almost
like upcoming in terms of, we all need,

we all need to have a little like,
experience in front of the camera.

It's, it's fun.

And then you get a, you know,
you get photos out of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With the people that you photographed,
the outcome, was there any particularly

memorable experiences that you had?

I mean, everyone was individual
and everyone had their

really interesting stories.

But one, and I photographed a
drag queen called Levoa, who

actually lived local at the time.

Great name.

Yeah.

And I would, I went, um, she was
getting ready, so I went to her

house and then we walked from her
house to a little studio that I was

using just in Greenwich Market and.

Everyone is like looking around
at this six foot redhead, um,

drag queen, and I'm just walking
along like, yeah, she's with me.

We're working together.

Um, so that, and then we did the,
the shoot, which was really fun.

And then we went to the local gay
bar where they were having like a

outdoor sort of summer pride day.

Um, And yeah, I just
spent the day together.

It was fun.

Yeah.

But I mean, like, you know that, that's
because she's a, an entertainer, but

I photographed politicians went to
the Houses of Parliament, uh, which

was quite cool and felt like this is,
I'm doing know proper adult work now.

I mean, going places and taking
people's pictures of their

workplace was quite nice.

And with the, taking those photographs.

So you, your main.

Gig is kind of doing proposal
photography and wedding photography.

Um, but with the outcome project,
did it feel like you had a different

kind of relationship with the people
that you're photographing because

of that kind of shared experience
of being LGBT plus and focusing on

that aspect of yourself in the work?

Yeah, I think so.

And also because the people that,
you know, I didn't make anyone do

the portrait cuz they also wanted to.

To be part of it or put their
face into the, the mix of

different LGBT plus people.

So it, there was a, a
different connection.

It wasn't like I was just arriving to
do a business headshot or something.

So it felt like there was, um, a
joint interest in, in doing it.

It was, I wanted to get to broaden my.

Project and they wanted to be part of
it because they saw it as a, a nice

thing to, to be part of and put their
face in amongst all the role models

of LGBT plus people at the time.

And within your photography work, do
you think there's anything that you've

learned about the LGBT plus community?

Um, I think once people are out,
they're more extravagant, maybe more

of an exhibitionist, cuz that not
being out that, um, Coming out process

just encourages you to, to be bold,
be yourself, and be a go-getter.

So people that I'd photographed,
many had not been photographed

before, or they would arrive and
say, I, I don't really, don't really

like having my, uh, photo taken.

Great.

I know.

Now we've gotta take your picture.

Um, but I think it, it
just shows you that.

It's one important to to be yourself.

Two, it's important to show the next
generation, you know, you can be out, you

can be yourself, you can wherever you are.

So, I think we're a, a
strong, a strong bunch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's really taking up space and
kind of saying, I'm here when you're

having a photograph of yourself.

Um, especially it's, uh, I think most ones
I saw were very much full body shot, so

you could see the whole person as well.

There was no hiding.

Yeah, exactly.

And it wasn't like they were all
in just plain clothing There.

Dressed in what they work as or
something that they're known for.

So it's, it's not just a photo of the
mixter representation of them as a person.

Uh, which again, it's, you know,
it's just, you know, courageous.

Have you ever done any self-portraits?

I mean, I did to promote outcome, I
did a photo of me like holding a sign

that says outcome, which, um, was
edited a little bit ready for the, um,

the book, but that's used in the book.

Um, And then during the pandemic
when I had absolutely nothing to do.

Yeah.

And I did do some, like self uh, tests or
just, you know, trial out some creative

ideas and, and just use myself with a, you
know, a remote release to take the photos.

Some worked, some didn't.

It was just something to do.

Yeah.

I mean, some people baked bread.

Yeah.

Oh, I did that as well.

Well, so you baked bread and
I did all the cliche things.

Banana bread.

I dyed my hair.

Grew things in the, uh,
the garden and Yeah.

Did, uh, self shoots.

And with those people obviously
coming with different backgrounds

and you mentioned kind of people
picking out what they're gonna wear.

Did it feel like a very
collaborative art project?

Yeah.

Like, cause I, you know, I, I was
upfront about this is what I want to do.

It's a plain, uh, white background.

I wanna photograph you as you are
representing what you do now, holding

your childhood photo to show that
you've grown up, you've come out,

you've become someone, your living life.

All good.

So then the, you know, the, the
participants will then would, would

email me and say, oh, I'm thinking
about doing this, or I work in

this field, but I also do this,
and I dunno which one to represent.

So some people we did a bit of both and
then chose afterwards and some, I would

say no, I think this is, this is great
because I, I don't have a doctor yet, or

I, I don't have a, a, a Judo, um, Person.

What'd you call someone who does judo?

I don't know.

Instructor.

No, maybe.

Yeah.

Um, so then we would sort of pick
and choose to like, try and get a

good range of, of different uh, you
know, people from different areas.

So you photographed around 150 people?

Yeah.

And I'd be interested to know about
the age range, um, cuz you mentioned

it's about people who are kind of
there now out and feel confident in

who they are and want to show that.

Was there a.

Big age range, or did what was
the kind of youngest to oldest?

Um, you know, I actually don't know
numbers in terms of who, what was the

youngest age, but quite young and like
maybe late, late teens, early twenties.

And then the, the oldest person, I
think they were in their late seventies.

Um, they'd been out for a
while, but then I photographed.

People in the, the middle of, of that
who had not been out that long or had

been married and have a family and then
realized, no, they're gay or, or whatever,

and they were, they have come out.

Um, so it's quite a mix.

So like earlier on when I said about
providing these photographs, these role

models for young people growing up,
it's not necessarily young people that

are still struggling about coming out.

It's, you know, whoever is.

Struggling with their identity or you
know, the sexuality, they might be able

to see my project and think, oh yeah,
no, there is life outside of the closet.

Even if you, you think it's safer
to, you know, carry on as you are.

Mm-hmm.

It's quite, quite a mix of ages.

And you also worked on shooting some LT
plus alumni of the university as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was quite a recent thing working
with, um, Sophie and the alumni team.

To add to the, the Greenwich
portraits, but focusing on l g,

BT q um, alumni, which was nice.

Nice to be back, nice to do work
and add to the, the portfolio.

So, yeah.

And that, that went really well.

Yeah, it was fun.

Did it, um, feel, I guess,
a different dynamic knowing

that those people you had the.

Both being at, having been at
Greenwich in common with these people?

Yeah.

So we, we would immediately
talk about, hasn't it changed?

Cause like the Stockwell
Street was, was not a thing.

Um, so yeah, we would just point out
what we remembered, what we recognized,

which local pub we would've been to.

Um, but then also there was a
nice thing that I'd had my photos

taken for the Greenwich portraits.

So I knew exactly what it's
like to be behind the cam,

um, in front of the camera.

On campus and just wandering
around, taking different pictures

to, you know, Was able to connect
with them on that level as well.

And you, so I guess your more
kind of day-to-day work is being a

proposal and wedding photographer.

Um, what does that feel like, feel does,
I'm guessing it feels quite different from

doing the LGBT plus specific projects.

Yeah, it is.

It's fun though.

I do enjoy it.

Like the marriage proposals is quite
a niche thing, which I got into.

Just before, um, COVID
and was able to work Yeah.

In and in and around the lockdowns
when you could have only a rule of

six people together, proposals could
still happen because it was generally

three or four people involved.

So I, I got plenty of experience doing
those and I've just continued to work

with, um, I do it freelance, but there's
a company called The Proposers, who

I work with quite a lot, and we all
get on and I actually really just,

it's just fun to work with them.

And each proposal was
completely different.

Um, I'd love it if there were more
same sex couples, you know, proposing

to each other and I would photograph
them cuz I, I have a, um, I set up an

Instagram called, they said Yes photos.

And that idea, it would
be more of a, a same sex.

Um, Take on, you know, romantic events.

Mm.

That it, it's, you know, it's quite a mix.

But yeah.

No, I, I do enjoy it.

And it's, um, also related to
the TV show that you are working

on with alongside the proposals.

Yeah.

Um, so interestingly, yeah.

Channel four approached.

The proposals, uh, to create a program
about marriage proposals and planning them

and what, you know, what goes into it.

So yeah, we're currently
filming something, uh, for

channel four at the moment.

I dunno when it will be out, hopefully by
the end of the year or around Valentine's.

Makes sense.

Um, so yeah, it's, it's fun.

It's completely different and quite
bizarre to be part of a, a TV show.

And I dunno yet in terms
of how much I'll be.

On it or might just be in the
background taking the photos.

But you know, I have done bits
of the camera, so we'll see.

Yeah, I don't wanna get too
excited in case it's awful.

Oh, it's just like a split
second of you clicking away.

Yeah.

You'll just see a, A lens
appear and that'll be me.

So with the work you've done in
relation to the LGBT plus community,

is it just photography that you
want to do that with, or have you

considered other mediums or avenues?

Um, no, I, I've just stuck with
photography and I dunno why.

Really, that's just my, uh, my comfort,
my, uh, what I'm used to, what I know.

But, you know, I, I've helped out
at different things and I've been

involved in prides in different way or.

Sharing things or being part of,
uh, news stories or interviews or

doing podcasts or different things.

Um, I think it's just important to help
out, help your local prides, do the

mainstream ones as well if you, if you
can, cuz they're fun to be part of.

Yeah.

But I would, you know, Say to anyone
listening as well, get involved in

LGBT plus community groups or, or
that kind of thing because it's,

it's just nice to give back and be,
you know, with like-minded people.

Mm-hmm.

Definitely.

And have you ever
photographed pride events?

Yeah, so a couple of years I worked
with Pride in London and, uh,

photographed on the parade route.

So just up and down photographing the
different groups, photographing the crowd.

Um, and then the, the stage Ingo
Square, which was quite cool for me

cause then one of the drag queens
from RuPaul's Drag Race, which

I love, uh, was on it and I got.

One of the best pictures that I feel like
I've ever taken, um, of her standing on

the, like the fence with the crowd all
like arms up cheering and it with the

National Portrait Gallery right behind.

So it, for me, it's, it's
quite a good picture.

It's my phone screen as well.

Oh, what was she wearing in it
and like, what did it look like?

Yeah, like a, sorry, a
rainbow like foam wig.

And silver reflective like bodysuit
dress thing with these big silver boots.

Yeah.

Quite striking obviously.

Yeah, it does.

Very striking.

Yeah.

And like it is very much that taking up
space, someone being present and yeah, I

think that's also why I, I like drag so
much cuz it's just like unapologetically.

Queer or L G B T, you know, related that.

They're just, here I am, this is me.

Extravagant, exhibitionist, getting all
the attention and yeah, being proud.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Drag queens love having
their photograph taken.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I do.

There's quite a few drag queen,
uh, portraits that I've done.

Now.

Are there any kind of
highlights that you remember of.

Queens that you've photographed?

Uh, yeah.

So the, the one I mentioned,
Levoi, and then I did a day down

in Brighton photographing different
people and a drag queen who a friend

called Lola Lasagna helped me.

Um, you get different people, you know,
in Brighton, uh, to come down for the day.

So I got, again, got quite a good mix.

But also that day, cuz she
knows different drag queens.

Um, we've got, uh, Joe Black,
Davina Sparkle, um, Lola herself.

Yeah.

So it's quite.

Quite a good mix.

And it sounds like you'll be quite kind
of like playful taking those photographs.

Do you, um, kind of just let people
bring themselves and get on with

it, or do you kind of try and.

I guess influence how they act
depending on how you interact with 'em?

Yeah, it, it's, it's a bit of both.

Um, I always find like if you
over direct someone, then it, they

become too conscious of where their
arm is or how they're standing.

And sometimes it's easier to give as less
direct as possible cuz then someone will

stand just how they would normally stand.

And be comfortable.

Um, it's when you start thinking,
how do I, how do I hold a book?

How do I put my hand in my pocket?

Which sounds silly, but once
you actually stand in front of a

camera and pose as, as you, you
know, um, it becomes quite tricky.

So, so, and then, but then that's
my job to then say, Do it like this

or walk out and come back in again
and just stand and we'll just chat

and I won't be taking pictures.

And then, you know, they just sort of
settle into it and we, we will, I'm always

talking like throughout a shoot, so we'll
take a few pictures and then we'll have

a chat and it just breaks down that kind
of, it breaks the ice, especially if

it's the first time I've met someone.

Yeah.

And, and since you are part of the
Lgt Plus community as well, and I'm

imagine that kind of helps with the.

Filled in that relationship when
you're photographing LGBT plus people?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, sometimes, especially when
I've done proposals for same-sex

couples, I, I might just drop it into
conversation, you know, I've mentioned

my husband or pride or something.

And I actually did a proposal last
year, the day after Pride in London

and, and it was a lesbian couple and
cuz it was the day after I was still

covered in glitter and I had like, um,
sticker on my, you know, on my bag.

You know, the pride flag.

So as soon as they saw me and I was, like
I said, I'm pretty sorry, I'm Kevin Glit.

I was a pride.

They loved it.

Um, and we, yeah, had a really fun
shoot and was chatting throughout.

So, um, it does help.

Cause then I think people, even
though like, you know, equality

has come so far and in society, you
know, you feel accepted if you like,

and everything's fine sometimes.

If you're doing something that's
not normal, like a, a proposal and

you're getting someone to photograph
it who you've never met before,

it's just nice to know you're on
the same wavelength for coming from

the, you know, the same community.

Yeah.

With proposals, what settings
are they normally in?

Uh, so normally it will
be in a venue in a.

A hired room for like private
dining or just an event space.

Um, and it'll be set up with candles and
petals, flowers, maybe light up letters,

marry me or, you know, hoops and balloon
arches and all that kind of thing.

Um, so yeah, some of them are quite
elaborate and eye catching, but

you know, it's stunning as well.

So I would normally like be hiding
behind a Mari me sign or just in a

corner of the room, so as they approach,
they come in the room, see the sign.

I get the reaction, I let the proposal
happen, how, um, how it plans out,

and then I'll go in and congratulate
them and then rest stage to get

different angles close up to the ring.

And then we do a couple shoot.

But yeah, sometimes when they're
outdoors, I will just be hanging around.

Um, WhatsApp or Facebook to drop my
location with the person who's booked me.

Mm-hmm.

So then they can walk to the right place
and I would just follow them for a bit

like a paparazzi like, um, and then
photograph the proposal as it happens, and

then, Go up and introduce them, and then
that's when the other person will normally

say, oh, I did see someone with a camera.

Yeah.

I just thought you were a tourist.

Yeah.

It's like, you're professional.

Yeah.

And then we do like the, the full
shoot and then yeah, leave them to it.

It's quite, um, an, I guess an intimate
moment to capture people and also with

photographing with the outcome project
in particular, photograph people

themselves, that's also quite intimate.

Um, do you feel like you've
learned more about people in

general for your photography work?

Um, yeah, I think so.

I think, um, Generally people
will do what you tell them to do.

And if, you know, you are in a, a
position of taking control of, of

the little situation that they're in.

So it being a photo shoot at the
time, um, I think I've also learned,

which is what I, I'm quite like
about myself, is that I'm quite warm.

I like to think that I can get
on with someone quite quickly

or just, you know, be amicable.

And that really helps when you are
just getting a job done when you

don't have actually that much time.

And also at a proposal you don't want to
take up much time cuz it's their special

moment, it's their romantic moment.

You don't want them coming
away thinking that was more

photos than proposal, you know?

So I like to work quickly,
kindly, and efficiently.

Um, get the job done and everyone's happy.

Yeah, I know that's summary of
quickly, kindly, and efficiently.

Yeah.

Um, and then just go on
to the final question.

Um, what would you want to say
to younger or newer members

of the LGBT plus community?

Um, so firstly, if, if they're
not out to come out, be proud to

be who you are because things.

Unfortunately, if things don't go
right with your family or people

don't accept you, there are still
hundreds, thousands, many more people

out there that will be be your family.

Um, you will make friends, you
will connect, you will flourish.

And so be bold, you know, feel
the fear, but do it anyway.

Um, and then once you're out, I would
just say to people, just make friends,

join groups, help out at Pride, support,
you know, your local gay bars cuz then

you build up a relationship and you
know, looking at my group of friends.

We are from all walks of life.

And I think that's what's cool about
the LB lgbtqu LGBTQ plus community, um,

is that we are everywhere and we all
bounce off each other and we have that

connection of this coming out process.

Um, so regardless if you know
someone's in banking or someone's in

politics and I'm a creative, we all
can still get on because we have that

joint story of how did you come out?

Or, you know, How are things with
people that you, you know, you went to

school with or your family or whatever.

So we have that connection.

So it's important to connect.

Yeah.

Make friends, be bold, do things,
do what you want to do, be happy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I really like the We are everywhere.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, it always reminds me of
the, the film Sixth Sense when

he says, I see dead people.

They're everywhere.

I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

LGBT plus community, they're everywhere.

Yeah.

Just haunting, friendy, ghosts.

Yeah.

Thank you for, um, speaking with me today.

Yeah.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah.

Um, I guess if before we let you
go, uh, there, is there anywhere

that our listeners can find you?

Um, and where can people find out
more about the outcome project?

Um, yeah, so, um, I'm.

On most of the socials @ Tom Dingley
photo um, or @ outcome L G B T.

And then my more romantic weddings and
proposal stuff is @ they said yes photos.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to
this episode of Spill the Tea.

I hope you enjoyed listening to it.

Please do share the podcast around and.

We'll be back with a new
episode later this year.